ASK S&V

Scott, Even though modern televisions use glass panes, they are quite thin(especially compared to the old CRT's). My kids have not broken my plasma yet but it's only a matter of time. I can't say for sure but the glass on flat panel displays seems more thin than picture frame glass(my kids have already broken several of those).

My wife has a friend who has a 4 year old boy who broke a 46inch Sony LCD with a toy as well. They had just bought it too. LCDs will break too. I agree with Scott by sticking with a plasma and only allowomg plush animal toys in the room where the tv is. I myself get scared when a child enters my home theater room. If you do most of your tv watching in a room that has lots of light, and LCD could be an option then.

Thanks to all for the advice on the breakable, non childproof plasmas. I have decided not to have kids now.Warren

For the $1200, get a Vivitek, Optoma or Epson projector. You'll get 100+ inches and if the kids break that screen, Heaven help you...

Philip, I just helped my brother design a killer system for his house. If your going B&W I would go for a HSU subwoofer. We loaded his system with B&W's and a nice pair of HSU VT-3 MK3's. Now depending upon the size of your room you might want a smaller sub but for the money nothing I have ever seen even touches the quality of the HSU subs.

Is there a good website to go to to find out more information about in-ceiling speakers. I have a system at home that uses in- ceiling speakers. Even though this configuration isn't the best when it comes to movie listening this is what I have and I am ok with it. The system came with the house that I purchased almost five years ago. The system consist of five 6 1/2 ONq in-ceiling speakers, a 10 inch velodyne subwoofer and a Onkyo 606 receiver. I just want to continue to tweak my system for optimal performance and learned about upgrading my system in the future.

Jerry i spend lat nights look for the Dream HT system. If you go the galleries and or blu-ray.com and surf Community you will get an ideal for up grades and killers system. Good luuck

On the Panny bluray player, you have to make sure you have secondary audio turned off as well as setting it to bitstream. If you leave secondary audio on you will not get True HD on your receiver.

To elaborate on what Matt just wrote (which was what I was going to write :)), if you have secondary audio turned on and bitstream turned on, you will not get any hi-def lossless sound, just lossy DD or lossy DTS or down-mixed PCM. (See Panny's manual, p 8.) So bitstream on and secondary audio off is necessary for your receiver to be lit up correctly.

Matt and Frank, great info; thanks! I looked at the Panny manual, but I obviously missed that little tidbit. I still recommend letting the player decode the audio, but if you want to send bitstreams, it's vital to know what you just taught us. Thanks again!Jerry, as far as I know, the only websites with info about in-ceiling speakers are from companies that sell them...for example, JBL, Polk, Pioneer, Atlantic Technology, SpeakerCraft, and Klipsch. You might also try asking around the forums, such as avsforum.com.

re ceiling speakers: though they are not *in ceiling* speakers, thiel's ceiling mount speakers have gotten great reviews including for their imaging. i believe martin logan is also marketing a speaker for in-ceiling that purports to image though i haven't seen any reviews on it.baald

Phil, as a B&W dealer and system designer I have an admittedly biased opinion, but I don't think you should discount the idea of in-ceiling speakers out of hand. As a matter of fact I have used the 818s in exactly the configuration you have described on a number of occasions with great success albeit with REL and Sunfire subs rather than Velodyne. Have you considered the new CI series B&Ws? The CCM 7.3, 7.4 AND 7.5s are all terrific speakers designed specifically for the application you have described. The 7.5s are even a little less money than the 818s. If you want to chat about it I can be reached at "daryl@sounds-of-music.com"Good luck.

Regarding a kid breaking a screen, the solution is simple. Train them not to throw stuff around in the house. It's worked for many millions or parents over the years who didn't want their expensive possessions ruined. I'm rather surprised that a full refund was given when the TV clearly wasn't defective - I guess that's one of the reasons why things are as expensive as they are these days (we all pay for the mistakes other people make).

Re the kid breaking the TV. There is an application called "Parental Responsibility" that is available for most households. It enables "Kids" to be "Kids" and "learn" as well as "Adults" to be "Adults" and "teach" how a home should be used. In use for thousands of years it never stymied growth in any way as people were brave or adventurous enough to visit space,develop medicines and nuclear weapons,fight multiple wars and produce all of the many great "inventions" including TV that we enjoy. Please use the "Application" Your son will appreciate it especially if he has to interact with others including "Law Enforcement" when he leaves your home.

Yeah was a little shocked at the full refund crap as well! Parents just need to train their damn kids to be civil and not terrors throwing their crap toys around! No disrespect. ;)

I'm with Scott. Next time you get the inclination to purchase in wall/in ceiling speakers, have someone strap you to a chair until the urge passes. You will pay more money for inferior sound - a lose/lose proposition. If this is domestically controversial, remember, you get to make SOME of the decisions. If this is not the case in your household, you have more problems than can be solved on a home theater forum.Oh yeah. An all those people who think that you can simply apply sufficient parental discipline and keep your toddlers in line has had inadequate recent contact with one.

My 3 year old son threw the remote on the LCD screen, a Samsung 36" and it cracked the screen as well and disabled the TV. So LCD screens are probably as easy to crack as the Plasma.. -Hans

Boston Acoustics has some very good in ceiling speakers and "in floor" subs as well. I am very pleased with the performance of mine over the past four/five years since installed.

Re the kid who broke the tv, this really bothers me on multiple accounts. Why should we have to bear the brunt of higher product costs because you can't keep your kid from throwing stuff?My brother's kid is an undisciplined little bugger, too. He has already thrown rocks at my friend's RPTV, having received ZERO discipline for that little stunt (I'm surprised he didn't get a "great throw!" atta boy). Fortunately for my friend his RPTV had a plastic screen. That's more than I can say for my KURO. Needless to say the kid has only been in my house once in his 3 1/2 years on this planet. God forbid my brother "deprive" his little darling from doing anything he wants.

It is great to see some of the responses regarding the "kid" from a parents' responsibility point of view. I was happily surprised! There is hope yet when folks "dare" to suggest that parents teach and discipline their little darlings. Thanks to all of you who expressed this point of view!wj4uni

Gregor, There's something about your post that bugs me. But I can't quite figure out what it is.

Gregor, that last comment is from a different Scott, not me.

Let me tell you, I have three kids 17, 6 & 3 yrs and none of them where allowed to come within two feet of my electronics. Guys with undisciplined kids STOP making excuses for them.

In the same vein as the little kid throwing toys, I never grew up and defaulted on my home because I didn't do my homework and bought an overpriced home at the top of the market that I could barely afford at the time. Thanks for bailing me out America.

I recently swapped my ML Prodigy/Sunfire/CRT front set up for B&W 818/Pass Labs/Plasma rig. What I got in return was A LOT of floor real estate, a more functional living space, and pretty freaking good sound. Though not quite the same as the original monster system - my priorities have changed, and I am more than pleased with the results. The in-ceiling B&W's will knock your socks off!

This is a response to Ed's post about "Parental Responsibility".All I can say is BRAVO! Very well put Ed!

Admittedly late to the party here, but I would second the suggestion to Phillip to use Thiel Power Point ceiling mounted speakers. They will likely be the best solution for when ceiling mounting is the only option. They also offer a in-ceiling speaker that's excellent, if you absolutely have to have something that discreet.

OK - I am really late to this thread, but...Paradigm makes some very good in ceiling speakers that are angled to fire more out into a room towards the seating area. Have used them in a couple of installs with grate success. Triad also has some nice angled in ceiling speakers with their own back box enclosure.