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Signal Switching, Tactile Transducers, Blu-ray Audio

Scott Wilkinson  |  Mar 17, 2010

So Many Questions!
I am buying a new TV soon, and I'm looking at the Samsung B8000, but on Leo Laporte's radio show, you keep talking about the B8500. Is the 8500 really $500-$1000 better than the 8000? Am I going to notice the difference?

Also, I'm looking for another home-theater receiver—but not a home-theater receiver. I want to use my 5.1 speakers, but I would rather just use an amplifier for the sound. I like the idea of using the TV to switch the video because I can use the picture-in-picture feature.

Finally, my wife and parents can't seem to figure out my Harmony remote; if the TV, receiver, and source (TiVo, Xbox, etc.) get out of sync, they are helpless. Is there a better solution?

Todd Palermo

I do think the 8500 is that much better than the 8000, because the 8500 uses LED backlighting with local dimming, whereas the 8000 uses LED edge lighting with no local dimming. The difference is that the 8500 achieves much better blacks and contrast. Home Theater hasn't reviewed the 8000, but we did review the UN55B8500 here.

You can certainly use the TV as the central video switcher, but not as the central audio switcher, at least not if you want high-quality surround sound. The TV can't easily feed the amps in a 5.1 system, and you won't get the full benefit of Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD soundtracks. So you need a device to do the audio switching and decoding, which is either an A/V receiver or preamp/processor with multichannel amp.

If you switch the video in the TV and audio in the AVR or pre/pro, things can get complicated. But if PIP is really important to you, and you get HD mainly via terrestrial (over-the-air) broadcast, this may be the only way to go. On the other hand, if you get your HD via satellite or cable, many providers offer PIP functionality in their receiver boxes, so you don't need the TV's PIP, and you can use an AVR or pre/pro for video and audio switching, which is a much better approach.

The Harmony One is the best universal remote I've ever used, and I really like all the Harmony remotes. If the components get out of sync, just hit the Help button and follow the steps in the remote's LCD screen. Just be sure the remote is pointed at the equipment. Even my 84-year-old mother can do it, and she's definitely technically challenged!

A Swift Kick in the Butt
Back in 2003, I was at the E3 video-game show and had the opportunity to visit the Clark Synthesis booth and experience its low-frequency transducers. I am now in a position to install them in my home theater and was wondering what your opinion is. Since it's a fair amount of work to run wires under my floor, I was wondering if you would recommend Clark or another brand, such as Earthquake or ButtKicker. I like that the Clark version since it can be mounted out of sight inside the seating.

Bob Hostetler

I'm the wrong guy to ask this question! I personally hate transducers such as these; they actually make me nauseous. Runco used to use them in their CEDIA demos, and the presenters got to know me and steer me toward one of the few seats without one. I'm sure there are people who love this effect, but I ain't one of them!

Audio Options
What is the difference between multichannel PCM and a raw bitstream output from a Blu-ray player? I recently purchased the Oppo BDP-83 and am trying to figure out if it's better to stream the data to my AVR (which can decode Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD master Audio) or decode it in the player. Lastly, what is the benefit of using the multichannel analog outputs on the player versus HDMI?

Nathan Daniels

Theoretically, there should be no audible difference between decoding Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA in the player—which then sends multichannel PCM to the AVR via HDMI—versus sending the raw bitstreams and having the AVR decode them. Whatever actual difference you might hear is insignificant in my book. I prefer to have the player do the decoding and send PCM to the AVR so I don't miss the secondary audio—PIP commentaries, menu sounds, etc.—which is sent if the player decodes the audio to PCM but not with the raw bitstream.

I see no real benefit in using the multichannel analog outputs over HDMI unless the AVR doesn't have HDMI capabilities. The analog connection normally bypasses the AVR's bass-management function, and many Blu-ray players don't have this feature. The BDP-83 does provide a basic bass-management function, but it's not as comprehensive as it is in most AVRs. Also, in my opinion, it's a big pain to deal with six or eight analog cables.

If you have a home-theater question, please send it to scott.wilkinson@sorc.com.

COMMENTS
Adam's picture
Submitted by Adam (not verified) on March 18, 2010 - 2:08am

To Bob...I have been involved with a few different Earthquake setups, and I must say that their product works very well. I've used their transducers, the stand alone powered subs, and their Cinenova Grande, and all around I was pleased with the performance of the gear, and the support from the brand itself. I have not used any of the stuff from Buttkicker, so I can not say anything one way or the other about their product or their support. All I know is that the experience I've had with Earthquake has been great. For what it's worth.

Dave Anderson's picture
Submitted by Dave Anderson (not verified) on March 18, 2010 - 10:02am

It seems to me that one advantage of using the TV to switch video sources is that it allows for different picture settings for the different video sources. In my case I have different picture settings for my PS3 and my HD cable DVR. The HDMI from the PS3 is routed through the AVR to get the advanced audio codecs. The HDMI from the cable box is routed directly to the TV for video, which requires connecting the (coax digital) audio from the DVR to the AVR separately. Since advanced audio codecs aren't sent through cable (yet), I'm not missing out audio-wise with this arrangement.

Scott Wilkinson's picture
Submitted by Scott Wilkinson (not verified) on March 18, 2010 - 11:49am

Dave, good point! Some AVRs and pre/pros offer independent picture controls for each input, but certainly not all. In any event, this type of setup still makes switching sources more complicated than if everything is going through the AVR.And you're entirely correct that cable (and satellite, for that matter) do not yet use the advanced audio codecs, so you can use optical or coax with no loss over what you'd get otherwise.

Jose Corona's picture
Submitted by Jose Corona (not verified) on March 21, 2010 - 5:50pm

I personally have used both the buttkicker products and the clark synthesis gold transducers. I prefer the clark synthesis transducers, as I send the full audible range through the stereo pre-outs (as opposed to using only the lfe) and I feel that the clark synthesis does a better job of reproducing these mid and high range frequencies. This of course is my personal humble opinion, based on only experience and not backed by any scientific value, for what its worth.

ender21's picture
Submitted by ender21 (not verified) on March 29, 2010 - 8:39am

I'll jump on board with you Scott. I'm not a fan of the transducers. I can feel the sound in my chairs quite well enough by just having my room properly EQ'd. I don't need to artificially enhance it. Having said that, I'm not trying to pooh-pooh others' choices. I remember when I was 18-25 I was so into bass having something like Clark/Buttkicker would have been like dying and going to heaven!

Austin Bradstreet's picture
Submitted by Austin Bradstreet (not verified) on March 30, 2010 - 7:50am

I have 2 Buttkicker LFE's mounted to the frame of my couches and I love them. So you can hide them if you don't mind drilling into you couch (I think I put a heavy piece of plywood on one of the couches for mounting). For scarey movies there is no beating feeling as well as hearing the movies. I have mine tuned for only the lowest freq, you can definately over do it. The Jordan's IMAX around here (MA) has a Buttkicker2 mounted to every 3 seats. I am sure the Earthquake ones are just as good.

Final Decisions - chime in's picture
Submitted by Final Decisions... (not verified) on March 30, 2010 - 3:50pm

I am down to "possibly" my final decision in choosing between 3-6 av receivers, which would you choose?1. Sony STR-DA5300ES ($700)2. Pioneer SC-25 ($1200)3. Pioneet VSX-9040TXH ($550)5. Onkyo TX-SR806, 807 & 907 ($500,$810,$850 respectivly)I'm leaning towards the first two but with Sony, even though (outside of some corrected mechanical failures) it rates highly online, most everyone asked downplays sony's performance, even the ES series (i question whether they're familiar with this unit).

Buttkicker Addict's picture
Submitted by Buttkicker Addict (not verified) on October 9, 2010 - 7:45pm

I own alot of buttkickers because I am addicted to them. I own two LFEs (4ohms) and I mounted one to my couch and the other one to my love seat. I use the Buttkicker's 1000 watts amplifier for both LFEs and they're awesome! They sure do SHAKE!! Also, I own one Buttkicker Concert (2ohm) because it uses more than 1000 watts of power (at least 1500 to 2000 watts) and I attached it to the couch. I use it with the same amplifier I use for the two LFEs (switcher). In addition, I own two Buttkicker Advances (the wireless kits) and I have both mounted to my bed. The Advance shakers comes with its own 300 watts amplifier and they are quiet BUT powerful. Finally, I have one Buttkicker Gamer (90 watts) and I have it hooked up to the desk chair in my office. The Buttkickers have excellent customer service and they are cheaper than the Clarks & Earthquakes (Buttkicker Advance Wireless Kit for 299.95). Check it out: http://www.buttkickergear.com/Wireless_ButtKicker_kit_BKA300_p/bk-kit-4....

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